1
00:00:04,150 --> 00:00:02,470
and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

2
00:00:05,349 --> 00:00:04,160
triangle you know there's explanation

3
00:00:07,349 --> 00:00:05,359
for everything that occurred in the

4
00:00:09,830 --> 00:00:07,359
renal chambers incident that doesn't

5
00:00:13,270 --> 00:00:09,840
involve aliens at all it was completely

6
00:00:15,990 --> 00:00:13,280
silent it comes right over our heads he

7
00:00:17,670 --> 00:00:16,000
saw a classic flying saucer really

8
00:00:19,349 --> 00:00:17,680
standing in the clearing he turned over

9
00:00:20,710 --> 00:00:19,359
to my father and held his hand and he

10
00:00:25,269 --> 00:00:20,720
looked in his eyes and said we're not

11
00:00:30,870 --> 00:00:28,630
welcome to podcast ufo for our live show

12
00:00:33,190 --> 00:00:30,880
we're live every wednesday at 8 pm

13
00:00:35,590 --> 00:00:33,200
eastern standard time on the dark matter

14
00:00:38,709 --> 00:00:35,600
radio network please remember to visit

15
00:00:41,910 --> 00:00:38,719
the website podcastufo.com

16
00:00:43,910 --> 00:00:41,920
for past episodes blogs and forums

17
00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:43,920
during the show feel free to participate

18
00:00:47,830 --> 00:00:45,680
live in our chat room

19
00:00:50,549 --> 00:00:47,840
and don't forget to like us on our very

20
00:00:53,189 --> 00:00:50,559
active facebook page hello and welcome

21
00:00:55,110 --> 00:00:53,199
to the show i'm martin willis your host

22
00:00:57,750 --> 00:00:55,120
and we are coming at you live on the

23
00:00:59,830 --> 00:00:57,760
dark matter radio network from on top of

24
00:01:02,150 --> 00:00:59,840
a mountain in maine and it's uh

25
00:01:04,869 --> 00:01:02,160
wednesday our shows are wednesday at 9

26
00:01:06,469 --> 00:01:04,879
00 pm eastern standard time which is one

27
00:01:08,310 --> 00:01:06,479
am utc

28
00:01:11,109 --> 00:01:08,320
slash gmt

29
00:01:12,870 --> 00:01:11,119
we have a jammed packed show for you

30
00:01:16,469 --> 00:01:12,880
this evening and we're doing a little

31
00:01:18,070 --> 00:01:16,479
celebrating this is our 100th show

32
00:01:21,830 --> 00:01:18,080
yay

33
00:01:23,830 --> 00:01:21,840
and we also have 10 000 likes on our

34
00:01:26,070 --> 00:01:23,840
facebook page this week so we're going

35
00:01:27,910 --> 00:01:26,080
to have a couple of extra people coming

36
00:01:31,109 --> 00:01:27,920
in to join us

37
00:01:32,149 --> 00:01:31,119
and our guest tonight is openminds radio

38
00:01:35,030 --> 00:01:32,159
and tv

39
00:01:36,789 --> 00:01:35,040
alejandro rojas before that

40
00:01:39,270 --> 00:01:36,799
as i said we have a couple people coming

41
00:01:40,710 --> 00:01:39,280
on there will be no astronomy segment

42
00:01:43,030 --> 00:01:40,720
this week

43
00:01:44,870 --> 00:01:43,040
andy will be back next week and he's

44
00:01:47,109 --> 00:01:44,880
going to be talking about dark matter

45
00:01:48,389 --> 00:01:47,119
whether it really exists or not we

46
00:01:50,789 --> 00:01:48,399
really don't know

47
00:01:52,149 --> 00:01:50,799
right now i have my former and severely

48
00:01:54,469 --> 00:01:52,159
missed

49
00:01:56,069 --> 00:01:54,479
co-host michael lowe joining me

50
00:01:58,310 --> 00:01:56,079
are you ready to kick around a news

51
00:01:59,670 --> 00:01:58,320
story like the old days michael

52
00:02:01,830 --> 00:01:59,680
well you know first of all

53
00:02:02,950 --> 00:02:01,840
congratulations on 100 shows martin

54
00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:02,960
thank you

55
00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:04,240
um

56
00:02:07,990 --> 00:02:06,240
and as we you were playing the intro i'm

57
00:02:09,350 --> 00:02:08,000
sitting here and you emailed me today

58
00:02:11,830 --> 00:02:09,360
and said hey when you come on let's do a

59
00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:11,840
news story and uh and i'm sitting here

60
00:02:15,830 --> 00:02:13,920
now the intro's rolling i'm looking at

61
00:02:18,710 --> 00:02:15,840
this new story and all i can think about

62
00:02:21,110 --> 00:02:18,720
is how many retakes did we used to do

63
00:02:23,830 --> 00:02:21,120
back when the show was not live we used

64
00:02:26,470 --> 00:02:23,840
to re-record the news sometimes five six

65
00:02:28,550 --> 00:02:26,480
times oh but it was so much fun but

66
00:02:30,949 --> 00:02:28,560
you're right uh sometimes we just said

67
00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:30,959
what the hell was that oh we said we

68
00:02:36,229 --> 00:02:33,760
said a lot worse than that yeah

69
00:02:38,710 --> 00:02:36,239
yeah if only uh yeah if only they could

70
00:02:40,150 --> 00:02:38,720
hear behind the scenes there was some

71
00:02:42,390 --> 00:02:40,160
i should have saved some of that because

72
00:02:44,309 --> 00:02:42,400
it was it was absolutely ridiculous

73
00:02:46,630 --> 00:02:44,319
uh the retakes and all that that was a

74
00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:46,640
lot of fun but um

75
00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:48,560
you know you are missed you know and i

76
00:02:51,509 --> 00:02:50,000
really appreciate when you came in and

77
00:02:53,190 --> 00:02:51,519
you helped out a while back and

78
00:02:55,030 --> 00:02:53,200
interviewed someone

79
00:02:57,270 --> 00:02:55,040
um who was that you interviewed i can't

80
00:02:59,670 --> 00:02:57,280
remember that was uh john ventry that's

81
00:03:01,670 --> 00:02:59,680
right yeah a lot of a lot of email about

82
00:03:04,229 --> 00:03:01,680
that a lot of people miss you i'm sorry

83
00:03:05,830 --> 00:03:04,239
the way your your job works out the live

84
00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:05,840
shows don't seem to work too well for

85
00:03:08,470 --> 00:03:07,280
you but that may change someday who

86
00:03:10,229 --> 00:03:08,480
knows

87
00:03:13,350 --> 00:03:10,239
well until then you can you can always

88
00:03:15,670 --> 00:03:13,360
count on me as a as as the reserves yes

89
00:03:18,470 --> 00:03:15,680
and uh that'll be great so

90
00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:18,480
do we have a news story we do we we do

91
00:03:23,589 --> 00:03:20,080
we have a special

92
00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:23,599
100th episode news story let me let me

93
00:03:29,509 --> 00:03:26,640
pull it up here take a deep breath

94
00:03:30,470 --> 00:03:29,519
try not to drop the f-bomb which was so

95
00:03:31,750 --> 00:03:30,480
frequent

96
00:03:34,229 --> 00:03:31,760
in those

97
00:03:36,229 --> 00:03:34,239
that's right okay take one all right

98
00:03:38,390 --> 00:03:36,239
yeah exactly

99
00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:38,400
and first up you know i'm not gonna do

100
00:03:41,350 --> 00:03:40,000
the remember the old intro i'd go

101
00:03:43,309 --> 00:03:41,360
through everything and remind everybody

102
00:03:46,070 --> 00:03:43,319
to check us out on facebook

103
00:03:48,390 --> 00:03:46,080
podcastufo.com oh yeah all that good

104
00:03:50,630 --> 00:03:48,400
stuff but instead we'll just jump right

105
00:03:53,270 --> 00:03:50,640
in with the 50th anniversary of the

106
00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:53,280
solway spaceman photo

107
00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:55,120
and this is one that i picked because i

108
00:03:59,110 --> 00:03:57,280
think a lot of american

109
00:04:01,429 --> 00:03:59,120
uh ufo

110
00:04:04,149 --> 00:04:01,439
enthusiasts will not be quite as

111
00:04:05,350 --> 00:04:04,159
familiar with it as some of our european

112
00:04:06,149 --> 00:04:05,360
listeners

113
00:04:09,830 --> 00:04:06,159
right

114
00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:09,840
and in late may 1964 fire mentioned jim

115
00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:11,760
templeton snapped several photographs of

116
00:04:15,509 --> 00:04:13,680
his wife and daughter at berg

117
00:04:18,550 --> 00:04:15,519
near his home in carlisle

118
00:04:19,909 --> 00:04:18,560
cumbria the uk once they were developed

119
00:04:21,349 --> 00:04:19,919
it was pointed out to templeton that

120
00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:21,359
there was something strange in a

121
00:04:25,189 --> 00:04:23,600
photograph of his daughter an odd white

122
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:25,199
figure that templeton claimed he had

123
00:04:29,830 --> 00:04:27,600
never seen the figure resembled a man in

124
00:04:31,350 --> 00:04:29,840
a spacesuit and was not seen in any of

125
00:04:32,950 --> 00:04:31,360
the other shots

126
00:04:35,350 --> 00:04:32,960
the strange photo was picked up by the

127
00:04:36,950 --> 00:04:35,360
cumberland news and that newspaper story

128
00:04:39,110 --> 00:04:36,960
resulted in wider coverage from the

129
00:04:40,870 --> 00:04:39,120
daily mail and other news outlets

130
00:04:43,110 --> 00:04:40,880
templeton would later claim to have been

131
00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:43,120
visited by two men in black and that

132
00:04:46,790 --> 00:04:44,800
sightings of similar figures by

133
00:04:49,909 --> 00:04:46,800
scientists would result in an australian

134
00:04:52,230 --> 00:04:49,919
missile test being aborted

135
00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:52,240
in in the year since the photograph was

136
00:04:56,710 --> 00:04:54,000
taken it has been suggested that it is

137
00:04:58,310 --> 00:04:56,720
merely an over exposed image of

138
00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:58,320
templeton's wife

139
00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:00,080
there was an aborted blue streak missile

140
00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:02,320
launch just days later but records seem

141
00:05:06,469 --> 00:05:03,520
to indicate that the launch was

142
00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:06,479
cancelled by automatic safety systems

143
00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:08,000
links to the bbc coverage of the

144
00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:10,320
anniversary an investigation into the

145
00:05:14,230 --> 00:05:12,400
australian blue streak missile story and

146
00:05:16,550 --> 00:05:14,240
a video of jim templeton telling his

147
00:05:17,390 --> 00:05:16,560
story will be included in the show notes

148
00:05:20,950 --> 00:05:17,400
at

149
00:05:23,270 --> 00:05:20,960
podcastufo.com yes indeed yes um you

150
00:05:24,870 --> 00:05:23,280
know if you're right now actually if

151
00:05:26,510 --> 00:05:24,880
you're listening live you can jump over

152
00:05:28,310 --> 00:05:26,520
to our website

153
00:05:30,550 --> 00:05:28,320
podcastufo.com and you can see the

154
00:05:32,710 --> 00:05:30,560
picture right on our homepage also

155
00:05:35,350 --> 00:05:32,720
please join in the chat room there it's

156
00:05:37,749 --> 00:05:35,360
a one two click sign in real quick and

157
00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:37,759
you can ask our guest tonight

158
00:05:42,790 --> 00:05:39,600
any questions you can

159
00:05:44,629 --> 00:05:42,800
you can uh chime chime in and uh you can

160
00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:44,639
argue with each other and say silly

161
00:05:48,710 --> 00:05:46,560
comments like you often do i know

162
00:05:51,029 --> 00:05:48,720
everyone's listening and here they come

163
00:05:52,870 --> 00:05:51,039
here come in the comments hey uh yeah

164
00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:52,880
this picture

165
00:05:56,309 --> 00:05:54,800
i i think it's one or two things michael

166
00:05:58,950 --> 00:05:56,319
it's either

167
00:06:00,870 --> 00:05:58,960
this is an interdimensional

168
00:06:03,350 --> 00:06:00,880
traveler or

169
00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:03,360
she's got a spaceman growing out of her

170
00:06:06,550 --> 00:06:05,680
head like a siamese twin or something i

171
00:06:10,309 --> 00:06:06,560
i

172
00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:10,319
for sure

173
00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:12,160
um you know

174
00:06:16,469 --> 00:06:13,840
the first thing i did

175
00:06:17,270 --> 00:06:16,479
was i just blew it right up on my ipad

176
00:06:19,749 --> 00:06:17,280
uh

177
00:06:21,830 --> 00:06:19,759
and you know just took my two fingers

178
00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:21,840
stretched it out

179
00:06:25,990 --> 00:06:24,400
nothing complicated no kind of uh crazy

180
00:06:28,070 --> 00:06:26,000
photo analysis

181
00:06:29,670 --> 00:06:28,080
and once i did that and i took a good

182
00:06:31,029 --> 00:06:29,680
look at it

183
00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:31,039
you can tell

184
00:06:35,189 --> 00:06:33,360
that by the shadowing

185
00:06:37,990 --> 00:06:35,199
uh

186
00:06:39,590 --> 00:06:38,000
basically that the arm is bent like

187
00:06:42,230 --> 00:06:39,600
and like

188
00:06:43,830 --> 00:06:42,240
at the elbow in such a way that the

189
00:06:45,830 --> 00:06:43,840
person is obviously

190
00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:45,840
or whatever it is the figure seems to

191
00:06:49,189 --> 00:06:47,440
have their back to

192
00:06:51,430 --> 00:06:49,199
uh the photographer

193
00:06:53,430 --> 00:06:51,440
once you do that and then you go well

194
00:06:56,469 --> 00:06:53,440
then if it was a person backwards and

195
00:06:58,550 --> 00:06:56,479
there was hair that would be darker yeah

196
00:07:00,870 --> 00:06:58,560
i'm surprised that this photo ever

197
00:07:03,189 --> 00:07:00,880
caused the big deal it seems to

198
00:07:04,950 --> 00:07:03,199
50 years ago

199
00:07:08,070 --> 00:07:04,960
well you know there wasn't there wasn't

200
00:07:09,430 --> 00:07:08,080
the photoshop there wasn't the hoaxing

201
00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:09,440
i don't think there was any hoaxing or

202
00:07:12,790 --> 00:07:11,120
if there was there's very little of it i

203
00:07:13,990 --> 00:07:12,800
would think compared to

204
00:07:15,909 --> 00:07:14,000
these days

205
00:07:18,550 --> 00:07:15,919
and you know it looks like an innocent

206
00:07:20,550 --> 00:07:18,560
shot of a cute little girl and this

207
00:07:22,870 --> 00:07:20,560
thing growing out of her head so yeah i

208
00:07:24,790 --> 00:07:22,880
mean i can see why that would you know

209
00:07:26,870 --> 00:07:24,800
cause a lot of stir but you're right if

210
00:07:28,070 --> 00:07:26,880
you really look at the way his arm is i

211
00:07:30,629 --> 00:07:28,080
think that is

212
00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:30,639
a a person's back

213
00:07:33,350 --> 00:07:31,840
you know they're up they're kind of

214
00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:33,360
elevated that's kind of strange thing

215
00:07:37,909 --> 00:07:35,680
about it right and i i would i would

216
00:07:39,510 --> 00:07:37,919
guess that if this was analyzed like it

217
00:07:41,110 --> 00:07:39,520
was supposed to have been 50 years ago

218
00:07:43,990 --> 00:07:41,120
there's probably a

219
00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:44,000
a pretty good estimate of how far it is

220
00:07:48,469 --> 00:07:46,240
between the horizon and and the little

221
00:07:51,350 --> 00:07:48,479
girl who is the subject of the picture

222
00:07:53,830 --> 00:07:51,360
if that's the case you could probably

223
00:07:54,550 --> 00:07:53,840
relatively easily figure if that could

224
00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:54,560
be

225
00:07:58,390 --> 00:07:55,360
um

226
00:07:59,670 --> 00:07:58,400
templeton's wife i mean i'm you know

227
00:08:01,990 --> 00:07:59,680
figure out what her height is and all

228
00:08:04,230 --> 00:08:02,000
that kind of stuff so it's one of these

229
00:08:08,469 --> 00:08:04,240
things that that although it was a major

230
00:08:09,830 --> 00:08:08,479
case in in the uk and very influential

231
00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:09,840
you know i look back now and i'm just

232
00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:12,560
like wow what was what quite was the big

233
00:08:16,629 --> 00:08:14,800
deal plus i wanted to make sure that i

234
00:08:19,110 --> 00:08:16,639
brought you guys something today that i

235
00:08:20,390 --> 00:08:19,120
could kind of not get behind because i

236
00:08:22,869 --> 00:08:20,400
know there's a lot of people out there

237
00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:22,879
who who are convinced that i am a

238
00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:25,520
disinformation agent so yes well we know

239
00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:28,080
that well you know who you are michael

240
00:08:32,230 --> 00:08:30,160
is you're someone that always kept me on

241
00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:32,240
the right track uh actually you know

242
00:08:35,509 --> 00:08:33,760
like when i was going a little

243
00:08:38,709 --> 00:08:35,519
conspiratorial

244
00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:38,719
or i started uh you know uh

245
00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:41,039
dishing uh grier or something like that

246
00:08:44,870 --> 00:08:42,800
you kind of you kind of reeled me in a

247
00:08:46,790 --> 00:08:44,880
little bit and there was some reeling on

248
00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:46,800
that yes

249
00:08:49,910 --> 00:08:47,920
take two

250
00:08:51,350 --> 00:08:49,920
yeah

251
00:08:53,509 --> 00:08:51,360
no we had a lot of fun though and

252
00:08:55,990 --> 00:08:53,519
michael i really appreciate you coming

253
00:08:58,070 --> 00:08:56,000
on and um it's always a blast to have

254
00:09:00,310 --> 00:08:58,080
you on and uh you want to sit in i'm

255
00:09:02,630 --> 00:09:00,320
going to pull in uh one other guest real

256
00:09:05,110 --> 00:09:02,640
quick here or you got you said you're

257
00:09:06,630 --> 00:09:05,120
you've been up for uh 20 some odd hours

258
00:09:09,509 --> 00:09:06,640
or something like that

259
00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:09,519
i've been up for a while yeah um i i got

260
00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:11,200
a few more minutes so all right so i'm

261
00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:13,600
going to pull in the next person here

262
00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:15,839
hang on just a second this is

263
00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:18,959
not as smooth as it could be but

264
00:09:23,350 --> 00:09:21,360
it'll still work

265
00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:23,360
is this gonna be my my favorite facebook

266
00:09:27,030 --> 00:09:25,760
girl i think so

267
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:27,040
hopefully she's

268
00:09:30,389 --> 00:09:29,200
she's ready i saw her in the chat room

269
00:09:34,389 --> 00:09:30,399
and

270
00:09:36,870 --> 00:09:35,670
peggy

271
00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:36,880
you know i think it's one of those

272
00:09:41,110 --> 00:09:39,200
things where her mic is muted

273
00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:41,120
and she doesn't know it because uh we

274
00:09:49,430 --> 00:09:48,070
okay peggy i see that you're on

275
00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:49,440
you're on skype

276
00:09:54,949 --> 00:09:51,519
and we're all signed in

277
00:09:56,389 --> 00:09:54,959
but we're not hearing anything from you

278
00:09:58,870 --> 00:09:56,399
so

279
00:10:01,430 --> 00:09:58,880
how about that that's a little better

280
00:10:02,630 --> 00:10:01,440
okay this is live radio dammit how are

281
00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:02,640
you peggy

282
00:10:08,389 --> 00:10:05,680
i did that on purpose um i'm good how

283
00:10:11,509 --> 00:10:08,399
are you hi michael hello

284
00:10:13,829 --> 00:10:11,519
hey i thought you had a microphone

285
00:10:16,550 --> 00:10:13,839
well you made me get this handset i have

286
00:10:19,269 --> 00:10:16,560
it on oh you do and i and i thought i

287
00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:19,279
did everything but i forgot to push the

288
00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:23,120
little button on it okay hey so peggy i

289
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:25,200
am having you on this evening because i

290
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:28,240
want to quickly thank you for your very

291
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:30,560
very hard work on the facebook page and

292
00:10:34,230 --> 00:10:32,720
if anyone out there listening hasn't

293
00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:34,240
been on our facebook page if you want

294
00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:37,279
the latest ufo news astronomy news peggy

295
00:10:41,430 --> 00:10:39,519
is at it every single day working hard

296
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:41,440
and even with her store back or anything

297
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:42,880
she's really hard

298
00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:46,959
24 7 martin that's right yeah so we hit

299
00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:49,920
10 000 likes this last week i know it's

300
00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:51,920
exciting i think my husband was as

301
00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:55,360
excited as we were really awesome yeah

302
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:56,800
what a good guy

303
00:11:01,350 --> 00:10:59,200
so i'm sure people want to know how on

304
00:11:02,470 --> 00:11:01,360
earth do you find

305
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,480
so many

306
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:04,880
stories and and you're uh sometimes

307
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:07,279
you're the first one to break a story

308
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:08,640
well

309
00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:11,040
google is my god you know

310
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:14,240
oh michael michael has uh michael don't

311
00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:15,279
you have a

312
00:11:19,190 --> 00:11:17,519
something against google oh i have a lot

313
00:11:21,910 --> 00:11:19,200
against google yeah

314
00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:21,920
well google google has served me well i

315
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:24,000
i get to google alerts

316
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:26,720
and then i subscribe to

317
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:31,360
dozens of other sites on facebook

318
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:33,440
that that post things and then i just

319
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:35,040
troll the internet

320
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:38,320
wow so you're one of the trollers

321
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:40,720
yeah well you've done a heck of a job

322
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:42,959
peggy and you're always fun and you know

323
00:11:47,829 --> 00:11:46,480
i gotta say peggy you you contacted me

324
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:47,839
pretty close to the beginning of the

325
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,519
show you know i think i was in like show

326
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,600
number 20 or something like that

327
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:53,519
probably was a criticism

328
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:56,240
and it was definitely criticism and um

329
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:57,760
you know it's funny when you i first

330
00:12:02,790 --> 00:11:59,920
read that i said who is this you know

331
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,800
what and uh

332
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,880
and then uh you know i started thinking

333
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:06,480
about whatever your comment was and you

334
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:08,480
know she's right i shouldn't do this or

335
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:11,040
that and you have helped guide me along

336
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:12,480
the way and you've also screened a

337
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:14,560
number of guests and

338
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:16,079
we actually haven't interviewed a number

339
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:19,360
of guests because of your screening and

340
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:20,959
it's always gone really well because of

341
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:23,600
your your balance and

342
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,920
and your great sense of humor and it's

343
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,079
been a real pleasure it's been a lot of

344
00:12:32,230 --> 00:12:30,000
fun for me it really has i've enjoyed

345
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:32,240
every minute of it and i want to thank

346
00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:34,160
you too you're almost always on the chat

347
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,399
room and you know getting people going

348
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,959
there and and that's always a blast and

349
00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:40,160
sometimes you

350
00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:42,399
everyone in the chat room just says

351
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,560
some really funny things while the the

352
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,320
gas is on now i don't want to scare away

353
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:48,480
any gas by saying that but i'm telling

354
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:49,760
you you know there's a lot of times

355
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,760
where i have to mute the mic and have a

356
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:53,680
little bit of a laugh i know it is fun i

357
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:55,600
wish more people uh

358
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,959
thought about it would come to it

359
00:13:00,590 --> 00:12:58,639
because it's a lot of fun

360
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:00,600
it is yep and you can go there now on

361
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,639
podcastufo.com it's right on the sidebar

362
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:04,079
two clicks and you're in

363
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:05,440
well

364
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:09,200
you've done a wonderful job you're great

365
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,079
to work with and uh it's been a joy

366
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:14,480
knowing you well um how's the pay no

367
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,279
let's not get into that yeah

368
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:19,440
but what can i say to send some money my

369
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:22,720
way martin that's right i love you man

370
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:25,360
all right hey thanks and uh

371
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:27,040
are we good to go michael it's been a

372
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:28,720
real pleasure thanks so much for coming

373
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,710
like i said i'm uh count me as the

374
00:13:38,389 --> 00:13:36,320
reserves

375
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,399
everybody needs a backup and once again

376
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,720
congratulations martin it's uh

377
00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:42,800
i still listen you know everybody i

378
00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:44,880
didn't like totally run away i still

379
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:47,360
listen uh listen i might be a week or so

380
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,720
behind sometimes because i am one of

381
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,120
those people i listen to the podcast but

382
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,760
uh yeah but last week was stan friedman

383
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:55,519
right that's right yeah yeah see i'm

384
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:57,440
current and everything all right i still

385
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:58,800
i still love the show you're still my

386
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,079
favorite out there martin so

387
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,079
congratulations man hey hey thanks so

388
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:05,120
much all right i love you guys take care

389
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:07,040
all right so now i'm gonna you guys are

390
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:08,560
gonna have to hang up while i pull in my

391
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:11,120
guests bye-bye bye-bye now

392
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:14,079
bye martin bye-bye

393
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:16,320
all right we got alejandro rojas coming

394
00:14:19,629 --> 00:14:18,800
up again you can jump in the chat room

395
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:19,639
at

396
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:22,639
podcastufo.com it's right on the sidebar

397
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,440
and alejandro are you there

398
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:27,279
i am here

399
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:28,240
hey

400
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:29,680
how are you man

401
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:32,000
good how are you doing good good uh

402
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:35,680
thanks for joining us for our 100th show

403
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:36,800
yay

404
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:37,600
yeah

405
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,240
uh michael on that was on in the

406
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:44,720
beginning yeah i heard him oh yeah

407
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:45,600
that's right

408
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:46,480
yeah

409
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:53,920
nice to hear the behind the scenes

410
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:56,560
although it's hard to imagine

411
00:15:01,509 --> 00:14:57,519
you

412
00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:01,519
regular basis

413
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,199
well when we knew it we could edit you

414
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:05,360
know that was the thing yeah sometimes i

415
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:08,000
got to tell you some of those uh

416
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,959
those newscasts were so funny i i wanted

417
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:12,800
i just wanted to go with it then you

418
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:14,480
have to change your thing on itunes that

419
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,320
you know and uh probably lose a number

420
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:18,639
of listeners right right so i had to we

421
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,040
had to clean it up a little yeah yeah

422
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,279
yeah i like to keep it clean too because

423
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:25,519
the kids deserve to have the info too

424
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,560
you know that's right uh absolutely and

425
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:30,000
you know without them you know who's

426
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,759
going to be the next generation coming

427
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:34,240
along right now yeah well you know we

428
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,519
could always teach them to swear because

429
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:37,440
they're going to eventually anyway

430
00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:40,959
yeah true yeah so hey um thanks for

431
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:43,120
again for joining us and what's going on

432
00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:45,440
i know um i saw

433
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:48,160
the letter you sent to the u.s air force

434
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,600
and read that through and i thought that

435
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,959
was really interesting i mean you always

436
00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:53,199
have a lot of things going on um before

437
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:55,120
we get into that letter

438
00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:57,199
um you know i was just talking you you

439
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:58,959
we're listening live i'm talking to

440
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:01,680
peggy and you're another person out

441
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,920
there that gets the news fast and

442
00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:07,680
i know you don't want to you know drop

443
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,519
your secrets out to everyone how you do

444
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:11,519
it but is that something that someone's

445
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,240
working on do you have like interns or

446
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:15,920
you know what what's going on here are

447
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:17,440
you doing it all yourself or do you have

448
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:18,399
help

449
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,279
well

450
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:21,600
uh if you've seen that show person of

451
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:24,720
interest it's sort of similar to that

452
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:27,440
uh these these big networks that are

453
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,320
combined we have a room uh size computer

454
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:32,480
kind of like norad

455
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:34,480
where we're tracking everything on a big

456
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:37,440
screen no actually peggy's methods are

457
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:40,399
probably very similar to mine uh

458
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:42,079
it's mostly

459
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:43,600
kind of like she said getting out there

460
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:45,279
you got to get out there first in uh

461
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,160
search search search and

462
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:50,240
look for and you know don't be opposed

463
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:52,079
to see i'm gonna give away a secret but

464
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,680
that's okay uh looking at uh you know

465
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:57,839
international news a lot of the news

466
00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:00,399
tips i get on international news in fact

467
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:03,759
today was kind of funny i found a story

468
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:05,839
about an australian

469
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:09,280
incident a near-miss of airplane with a

470
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:11,919
ufo in australia and i found this on an

471
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:14,000
italian site and i thought wow this is

472
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:16,319
really cool i hadn't seen it anywhere

473
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,880
else i posted that today thinking all

474
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:21,120
right i've got a scoop here the italians

475
00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:22,880
are the only ones to have this story so

476
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:25,600
far and then i noticed that ufo

477
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:28,640
chronicles posted it two days ago so

478
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:31,360
um you know i appreciate everybody in

479
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:32,799
the field i think there's a lot of cool

480
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,120
people doing this kind of stuff so it's

481
00:17:38,549 --> 00:17:37,200
fun to kind of have friendly competition

482
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,559
that way but

483
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,240
yeah it is really fun to get out there

484
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,640
first with the story the chinese story i

485
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:45,039
think i was prefers to post it as far as

486
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:47,760
i know here in the us uh are you talking

487
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:50,559
about the chinese the possible space

488
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:51,520
debris

489
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:55,679
pretty firm that it was off of the

490
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:57,520
russian rocket that

491
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:58,400
had

492
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,880
blown up on the same day

493
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,360
but uh yeah that's what i'm talking

494
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:05,679
about and that story has still gotten

495
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:07,280
really big

496
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:10,400
internationally it keeps going and then

497
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:12,240
you know a few days after we wrote about

498
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:13,679
it at least beagle wrote about it with

499
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:15,679
the huffington post and

500
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:17,600
that seemed to reinvigorate the whole

501
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:20,080
story and then luckily he has a lot of

502
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,400
people a lot of mass media the big guys

503
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:24,480
looking at his story so

504
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:27,440
more people started writing about it so

505
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:31,039
that one has really got some legs but uh

506
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:33,039
yeah you know just keeping at it

507
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:34,880
constantly

508
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:37,280
all of the time and one thing peggy

509
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:39,679
probably does that i don't is a monitor

510
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:41,600
stuff on the weekend so much so that

511
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:44,160
gets her ahead of the game because

512
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:46,320
she can scoop us on those weekend

513
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:49,039
stories uh she's listening too so

514
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:50,559
keep that in mind peggy work a little

515
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:53,600
harder on the weekend okay

516
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,080
so hey alejandra i don't know if i ever

517
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,000
had this conversation with you in the

518
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,640
past when we met last year and i know i

519
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:02,559
was on your show and you were briefly on

520
00:19:06,789 --> 00:19:05,360
my show before but um

521
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:06,799
what what got you

522
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:10,480
fascinated in this subject to begin with

523
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:12,559
you know i really when i go back to the

524
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:14,880
root of it all i think it's a

525
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:17,840
combination of things a combination of

526
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:19,520
of the left and the right side of my

527
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:20,559
brain

528
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:21,440
i

529
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:38,880
culture

530
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,160
such as uh witches and brujas that kind

531
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:46,559
of thing is more open with native

532
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,640
americans you know you have a lot of

533
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:51,120
mythologies and stuff like that so but i

534
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:54,080
was always open to it especially because

535
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:57,600
i was raised a catholic and i thought

536
00:20:01,750 --> 00:20:00,080
well if i'm going to be open to these

537
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:01,760
mythologies i should be open to the

538
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,880
mythologies of my ancestors as well and

539
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,880
so i was i was open to these ideas at

540
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,720
the same time

541
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:10,799
when i was in high school and beginning

542
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:12,320
in college uh

543
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:17,120
my i was very into science and space

544
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:19,600
but it was more of a

545
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:20,720
you know

546
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:23,520
pragmatic type of thing where i was into

547
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,840
mathematics and proving things with math

548
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:27,200
and science

549
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:28,000
and

550
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:32,559
eye on ufo things but

551
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:34,799
it kind of hit a critical mass for me i

552
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:37,280
guess at uh when it came to the

553
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,440
disclosure project you were talking

554
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,000
earlier about talking crap about career

555
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:44,320
and uh certainly you and i have shared

556
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:45,679
our concerns

557
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,880
um before on the air but uh i've got to

558
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:50,880
admit that you know grier's disgrozer

559
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,280
project when he put together that those

560
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:55,440
witnesses that were so impressive

561
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:57,679
um at the washington press club by then

562
00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:00,400
i was into journalism i headed that

563
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,520
direction

564
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:03,120
and uh

565
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:06,960
certainly a news hand which i still am

566
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:09,360
and when he didn't get you know the

567
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,520
recognition that i thought he should get

568
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:15,440
because of the

569
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:17,600
impressive incredible anecdotal

570
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,240
information he presented

571
00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:23,039
something snapped to me i thought i need

572
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,760
to find out more how did i not know

573
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:27,840
about these guys before because i watch

574
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:30,400
all the documentaries on tv

575
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:32,720
and i just became a hermit for the next

576
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,600
few next year or two

577
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:37,760
reading and researching and reading and

578
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,440
researching all day and all night then i

579
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:43,039
became a

580
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:45,440
move on field investigator

581
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:46,480
and

582
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:48,080
that's kind of where it started i kind

583
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:49,760
of caught the bug

584
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:52,480
at that moment i was already into this

585
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:55,200
stuff but then ever since then i've

586
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:56,480
devoted

587
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,200
more and more in my life to studying and

588
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:01,520
sharing information on this phenomena

589
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:04,880
and how has it treated you

590
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,679
it has treated me good

591
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:10,000
bad and indifferent

592
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:12,000
i guess it's certainly a roller coaster

593
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,480
ride yeah um

594
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:16,480
and i saw the evolution of some of the

595
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:19,520
luminaries such as jay allen heineck or

596
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,039
jacques valet

597
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:22,559
uh and

598
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:25,360
and some of the the mentors that i had

599
00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,280
such as john schussler

600
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:29,360
uh who was in colorado at the time

601
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,960
running mufon and

602
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:32,159
and

603
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,799
who've been in this field for decades

604
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:38,640
and you can kind of see this evolution

605
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:39,440
of

606
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,640
going from this high energy

607
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,200
to kind of a research mode and

608
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:47,200
eventually interested

609
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:48,880
but cynical

610
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:50,880
yeah and then and then i think we had

611
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:52,880
this conversation too some some just go

612
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:56,480
wacky you know and a lot go wacky you're

613
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:58,559
right and i think you either go

614
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:02,159
extremely cynical or or wacky and it's

615
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:04,640
hard for people to stay in between but

616
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:05,840
some do

617
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:08,080
kind of uh keep that middle ground which

618
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:11,120
is really important and friedman is one

619
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:13,280
i would think right right you know what

620
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:14,480
what is this

621
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:16,320
the saying you hear out there and that

622
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:17,520
something like

623
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:19,440
if you look hard enough out at it it'll

624
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:21,679
start looking back at you i i think you

625
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,000
know some people have that that type of

626
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:26,320
attitude and yeah some people have just

627
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:28,080
kind of like snapped gone off the deep

628
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:31,120
end and yeah and uh without even you

629
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:32,640
know really looking into what they're

630
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:35,120
talking about and yeah it gets it's it's

631
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:37,200
kind of scary and unfortunately when

632
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:39,919
that happens you know the whole

633
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:42,559
realm of ufology loses a couple of

634
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:44,799
notches and you know

635
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,440
yeah i've gotten past that point i've

636
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:49,200
gotten past the point of getting

637
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:50,799
frustrated with

638
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:53,840
what happens to ufology or how ufology

639
00:24:00,149 --> 00:23:57,120
is is viewed uh and to where i i look at

640
00:24:02,549 --> 00:24:00,159
that more of a sociological level i

641
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:02,559
guess for me it's it's certainly a case

642
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:04,799
of swimming through the static to look

643
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:06,720
for those little pearls of truth but

644
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:07,919
you've got to

645
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:10,320
keep digging through that static to find

646
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,000
these things and then

647
00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:14,080
when you're able to present it like i

648
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,400
love my my air force letter because i

649
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,240
was able to put a lot of kind of jewels

650
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:20,400
that i've ran across over the years

651
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:22,159
together in one piece

652
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,679
but um

653
00:24:28,230 --> 00:24:25,840
i think you just got to focus on that i

654
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:28,240
think let i get less worried about the

655
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:30,159
effects how people see ufology because

656
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:31,279
that's something that's out of your

657
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:34,400
control yeah you know things will flow

658
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:36,880
whatever way they do and you can just

659
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:40,640
watch it but what kind of i have to work

660
00:24:45,909 --> 00:24:43,919
on is when people which they always are

661
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:45,919
and i'm sure you get this too get really

662
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:48,799
frustrated with you and i guess they

663
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:51,440
just don't and that for me or you know

664
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,240
if you feel this way too but uh you know

665
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:56,080
where it's like i'm just you know

666
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:57,600
working really hard to find these

667
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,000
kernels so choose to present to everyone

668
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:02,400
and and we have a shared interest but

669
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:04,640
people get really really upset when you

670
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:06,880
don't focus on their worldview or what

671
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:09,679
they think the focus should be and for

672
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:11,360
the most part i don't let that bother me

673
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:14,320
but sometimes it does get to me and i

674
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:16,240
wish we could just kind of all be

675
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,080
cooperative and respect each other's

676
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:20,159
opinions and different viewpoints

677
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,400
because uh i think thank god that there

678
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:24,480
are so many different points of view and

679
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:26,080
people looking in different directions

680
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:27,679
because there are certainly people

681
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:30,159
making discovery and finding uh great

682
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:32,320
things in places i'm not even focused or

683
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,279
looking in and that's great um because

684
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:38,480
then we're all able to uh share and put

685
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,240
our heads together and hopefully get

686
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:43,039
somewhere yeah yeah no one really has i

687
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:44,480
asked stan last

688
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:46,559
stan freeman last week you know do we

689
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:47,919
feel like we're any

690
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:51,440
think he said he actually does in a lot

691
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,799
of ways you know

692
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:54,960
um you know to actually

693
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:57,760
i i personally think that

694
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:00,000
we're not any closer to finding the

695
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:02,000
answer myself but you know we have a

696
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:04,720
couple questions up on the message board

697
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:08,320
before we get into your letter and um

698
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:10,960
uh let's see i'm sorry uh just like oh

699
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:12,720
yes someone wants to know about your

700
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:15,840
mufon experience

701
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,640
uh

702
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:18,320
my ex i've

703
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:20,080
you know early on i got involved with

704
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:23,039
mufon i decided if

705
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:24,640
there's something to all this i really

706
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:27,120
need to talk to now that i've read

707
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:29,919
everything i can get my hands on to read

708
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:32,559
i read many many books a lot of the

709
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:34,960
classics i think in the the field

710
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:38,480
um i decided i now it's time to get out

711
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:40,320
in the field to talk to some of these

712
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,640
people who are witnessing things and and

713
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:44,559
kind of test some of these numbers such

714
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:46,400
as blue books saying you know that maybe

715
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,880
10 to 10 of these things are real the

716
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:50,640
rest are hoaxes or

717
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:53,120
misidentifications

718
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,679
and so i started doing field work and

719
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,080
then uh becoming an investigator then

720
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:00,480
also helping the local group

721
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:03,039
the local group luckily was where

722
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:05,679
national headquarters were so i got to

723
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:08,320
be involved with first being a treasurer

724
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,919
and then helping put together the

725
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:12,320
symposium and then eventually becoming

726
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:14,880
the official spokesperson for mufon for

727
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:16,880
a period of time really

728
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:21,279
and uh this entire time i

729
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:24,320
i guess because i knew john schuster who

730
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:26,399
is one of the founders really well and i

731
00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:28,240
understand their their point of view

732
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:29,679
which is simply

733
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:32,080
the pursuit of you know scientific

734
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:33,360
understanding

735
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:34,399
in this field

736
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,000
that i've always

737
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:38,320
appreciated that mission

738
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:41,120
also their efforts has been able to

739
00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:44,000
create this humongous network that

740
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:46,840
across the country that is

741
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,360
unrivaled uh and i think really

742
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,200
important that there's no other country

743
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:53,520
that has anything like this so i've

744
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:56,320
always felt mufon was important and

745
00:28:00,950 --> 00:28:00,000
always have been involved with mufon

746
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:00,960
and

747
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:02,640
you know i could even announce today we

748
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,360
just made a great new partnership where

749
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:07,600
roger marsh is going to start writing

750
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:10,000
for us now so he's going to be posting

751
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:11,919
all of his stories he's the director of

752
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:14,720
communications for mufon so he writes up

753
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,799
their sighting reports and then works

754
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:19,440
with state directors on on their solved

755
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,799
cases to write up stories about uh you

756
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:24,640
know the the

757
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:27,039
the result or the research cases so he's

758
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:28,960
going to be posting that with us i've

759
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:32,159
always appreciated mufon and tried to do

760
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:34,960
what i can to work together with mufon

761
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:37,919
um so i'm a big mufon fan i've been you

762
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:38,720
know

763
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:40,799
been able to see a lot of the behind the

764
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,840
scenes

765
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:43,440
and i think a lot of people have a lot

766
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:45,360
of frustrations i mean when i was the pr

767
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:47,200
guy for mufon i faced a lot and had to

768
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,279
answer a lot of these questions it gets

769
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:51,840
back to what i said before mufon has

770
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,240
this stated mission they're looking in a

771
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:56,159
certain direction their boots on the

772
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,120
ground

773
00:29:02,549 --> 00:28:59,520
a lot of times more nuts and bolts but

774
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:02,559
we need that and we need that focus i

775
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:05,200
think mufon can and should be

776
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:08,799
at the steady of ufo research are they

777
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:10,399
going to be able to do everything that

778
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,559
everybody wants them to do no

779
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:14,399
you know that's not their mission that's

780
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:16,080
not what they're doing they need to do

781
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:17,440
what they do

782
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,000
if you want something different then go

783
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:22,799
join another group or go

784
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:25,279
start your own group uh you know there's

785
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:28,640
no problem with that that's great um

786
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,679
but

787
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:32,000
i think a lot of times people want mufon

788
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,880
to be everything for everyone and no one

789
00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:36,720
can really do that especially when

790
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:38,159
you're dealing with a volunteer

791
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:40,080
organization where these people are

792
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,080
trying to fit in a few hours of their

793
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:44,640
time these are these are parents these

794
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,960
are people who work full-time and

795
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:48,640
they're trying to fit in a few hours

796
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,720
here and there to do this sort of work

797
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:53,039
and you can't expect too much from these

798
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:54,480
guys

799
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:57,279
people you know doing that volunteer

800
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:59,039
organizations are all pretty much like

801
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:00,480
that i think anybody who's been in a

802
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:03,039
volunteer organizat organization

803
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:07,120
realizes that so i think a lot

804
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:10,000
gets done for a volunteer organization

805
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,279
and uh i'm a big big mufon advocate

806
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:15,600
uh-huh okay well you know there every

807
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,799
once in a while you hear a little

808
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:18,480
controversy about

809
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:21,200
about mufon here and there you know like

810
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:22,880
what are they doing with all these files

811
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:24,559
and stuff like that you know we don't

812
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,720
really have to get into any of that um

813
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:28,480
and i i appreciate it well the great

814
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:30,720
thing is just to your point is that

815
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:32,880
roger marsh is that guy to get that

816
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,440
information out and he has been doing

817
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:37,200
that he's been doing that on the website

818
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,880
the new website which is great now and

819
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:40,960
through examiner and now he's going to

820
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:43,120
be doing that through us so we're going

821
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:44,640
to be able to help

822
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:47,520
get those cases out get that information

823
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:50,399
out and they are very transparent you

824
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:51,600
can go

825
00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:53,600
uh i mean for you could go look at all

826
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:55,360
the case files and people do and write

827
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:57,919
about it all the time so um

828
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:00,559
i know they work really hard to uh

829
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:03,200
respond to those criticisms and to do

830
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:05,279
their best to be as transparent as

831
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:07,840
possible yeah now um we have a question

832
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:10,240
up on the message board and ryan wants

833
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,279
to know

834
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:12,880
the thoughts that you have on the

835
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:14,480
astronomers speaking of seti you just

836
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:15,679
spoke about

837
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:17,840
at congress about the possibility of e.t

838
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:19,279
life

839
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,679
yeah that's really cool we had a

840
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:23,919
shepherd johnson who's a guy who's

841
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:25,919
written for our magazine and he's a good

842
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:28,640
friend uh kind of online buddy of ours

843
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:31,279
and he was there and he wrote about it

844
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:33,760
on our website he even interviewed

845
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:37,840
shastak oh yeah and uh he

846
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:40,640
i think it was really interesting and

847
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:42,880
that it shows i don't know if a lot of

848
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,600
people remember that seti and this is

849
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,760
represented in the movie contact a great

850
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:49,440
movie kind of about

851
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:50,240
uh

852
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:52,640
you know fiction written by carl sagan

853
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:55,200
great movie and it shows the tough time

854
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,320
how seti wasn't taken serious for a long

855
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,720
time and i remember when i first got

856
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:02,720
involved with this stuff and i was even

857
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:04,799
more into seti at that point you know

858
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,840
they were made fun of a lot of times now

859
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:10,320
because of their persistence and their

860
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:13,120
professionalism they're taken much more

861
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:15,440
seriously really if you look at the

862
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:18,080
media coverage for seti they're taken as

863
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:20,559
as true scientists and true pundits when

864
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:22,000
it comes to the search for

865
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:24,080
extraterrestrial life and

866
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:25,279
they are

867
00:32:28,350 --> 00:32:27,360
taken very seriously

868
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:28,360
however

869
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,320
unfortunately

870
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,640
and i think that's kind of a gateway to

871
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:35,279
ufology you got to take the idea of

872
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:36,960
extraterrestrial life

873
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:39,039
especially intelligent extraterrestrial

874
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:41,120
life being possible to take the next

875
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:42,720
step into

876
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,440
whether or not we could be being visited

877
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:47,519
yep don't go there

878
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,799
right so

879
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,320
i thought it was really interesting

880
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:52,320
where the congress didn't even really

881
00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:55,200
take seti that serious in this this last

882
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:58,000
hearing were they uh some people

883
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:58,880
uh

884
00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:00,960
which i think is just so pompous and

885
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:04,159
egotistical kind of used it as that they

886
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,240
just kind of threw out their softballs

887
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:08,399
kind of threw out some jokes and then

888
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:10,240
didn't really pay attention to the thing

889
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:11,760
very much so

890
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:13,840
that's really sad

891
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:16,480
but i guess what can we

892
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:18,559
expect from

893
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:21,360
um a lot of politicians who

894
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,679
don't seem to understand science very

895
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:25,679
well and

896
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:27,679
and that you know

897
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,799
without trying to get too political are

898
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:32,480
putting a blind eye towards other

899
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:34,640
scientific

900
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:37,039
efforts or findings out there well you

901
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:39,279
know i've said this before on the show

902
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,880
and not to be redundant but you know a

903
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:42,000
lot of people

904
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:44,159
have full lives and they're just looking

905
00:33:47,669 --> 00:33:45,440
around them and they're not really

906
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,679
thinking about what's up and what's

907
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:49,919
yeah that we're just a vulnerable little

908
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:52,399
ball out in the middle of space can be

909
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:53,519
you know

910
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:56,640
i mean nothing nothing crosses their

911
00:34:02,070 --> 00:33:59,200
mind unless something happens or unless

912
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:02,080
they have a sighting themselves you know

913
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:03,760
those type of things most people are

914
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:06,399
just going about their daily lives

915
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:09,839
i agreed unless it affects you directly

916
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,800
and i can i can sympathize with that why

917
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,240
are you going to care you know you got

918
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:16,560
to take care of your kids you got to pay

919
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:19,599
your bills everyday concerns if it's not

920
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,399
affecting your ability to manage your

921
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,240
life then it's not going to be a high

922
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,560
priority right hey if you're listening

923
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,560
live right now on dark matter radio

924
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:30,480
network you can jump over to our chat

925
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:33,359
room and ask alejandro a question

926
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:35,760
and that's podcastufo.com right on the

927
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:38,879
sidebar one two click and you're in

928
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:41,760
let's see um what did here's another

929
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:43,200
message board question what did you

930
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:44,560
think about

931
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:48,480
the tv show ancient aliens and the show

932
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:50,240
for pete's sake is that is that actually

933
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:52,879
a show or is this a joke

934
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:54,320
i'm not familiar with the show for

935
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:55,599
pete's sake

936
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:58,079
yeah i'm not i'm not familiar with that

937
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:59,680
one either

938
00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:01,920
that that might have been sort of a joke

939
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:03,920
but yeah what about ancient aliens what

940
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:05,280
did you think about what do you think

941
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:07,119
about that show

942
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:08,640
well

943
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:11,119
what my achilles heel might be that i've

944
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:13,200
got to be honest but this is one man's

945
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:15,520
opinion no no no i'm probably right

946
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:16,800
there with you

947
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,800
yeah i'm not that big of a fan of

948
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:20,880
ancient aliens to be completely honest i

949
00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:22,000
mean

950
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:28,950
but uh and the reason is is it it's a

951
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,119
lot i love the you know people on the

952
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:33,040
show i've known a lot of those people on

953
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:35,839
the show um david hatcher childress is

954
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:37,760
one of the nicest guys he's

955
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,280
i think it's incredible that he

956
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:41,520
republishes all of these books

957
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:45,280
uh and everything but um

958
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:47,200
but there's just it's highly highly

959
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:49,520
highly highly speculative

960
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:52,079
and i think that that is fun to

961
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,680
speculate uh there certainly seems to be

962
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:57,680
a trend in this field especially with

963
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:00,880
the media right now to kind of speculate

964
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:03,280
uh and to just

965
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:06,560
speculate for speculation's sake

966
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:08,880
which is fine i guess maybe that's even

967
00:36:13,630 --> 00:36:10,640
a good thing because hopefully that

968
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:13,640
speculation will then turn into

969
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:16,640
a large amount of people

970
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:19,359
looking more into some of these ideas

971
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:22,000
and uh whether or not they're legitimate

972
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:23,599
or not and

973
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:27,200
and certainly there are uh core there

974
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:30,160
are some true mysteries uh in some of

975
00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:32,160
this this speculation but it kind of

976
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:34,560
comes to ufo reports where you know

977
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:36,960
that's maybe ten percent uh do we have a

978
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:39,599
true mystery whereas a lot of these

979
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,480
things

980
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,240
i mean to me

981
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:44,240
and this might upset some people to me

982
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:46,000
this recent story

983
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:48,079
about how they discovered

984
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:51,119
most likely how they built the pyramids

985
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:54,800
was really convincing i mean it i think

986
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:56,880
they really finally kind of

987
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:00,400
are starting to figure this out and uh

988
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:02,320
some of these things so

989
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:03,920
that's the great thing about mysteries

990
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:06,640
is is you know they they offer a riddle

991
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:09,760
and sometimes those riddles are are

992
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,079
the answers lie right here in

993
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:14,560
in terrestrial right here on earth and

994
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:16,640
with human ingenuity

995
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:18,480
uh but sometimes maybe they don't

996
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:20,240
there's a lot of unanswered questions

997
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:23,200
that's for sure absolutely um another

998
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:24,320
question up here and then we're going to

999
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:27,119
go into your letter i promise okay no

1000
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:29,119
problem since you're in touch with a lot

1001
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:32,400
of ufo info from other countries

1002
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:35,119
who are more open about the topic

1003
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:37,440
um i i actually have uh an opinion about

1004
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:39,920
that myself yeah and what keeps that

1005
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:42,000
info citing reports etc from ever

1006
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:46,950
it's a good question i think i think

1007
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:49,040
this is really interesting in that it

1008
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,400
seems to me

1009
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:52,400
really south america

1010
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,599
the latin countries asian countries

1011
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:57,920
largely seem to be way more open to this

1012
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:00,960
phenomena than western countries some

1013
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,000
western countries such as germany are

1014
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:06,720
really against this stuff i mean they uh

1015
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:10,160
you know a lot of countries and the uk

1016
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:12,640
is about where we are

1017
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:15,200
i can't figure out where russia is

1018
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:17,040
you know they're kind of like some parts

1019
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:18,560
of them they're like like really

1020
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,079
interested and then some parts are like

1021
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:22,240
really against you know talking about it

1022
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:24,000
yeah yeah they're kind of back and forth

1023
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:26,160
but it seems our media is really opening

1024
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:28,960
up to it uh especially lately if it

1025
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:31,920
allows them to take a jab at the west

1026
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:33,280
but um

1027
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:34,640
i think that they

1028
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,040
you know because lately russia today has

1029
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:39,680
had stephen grier on and a couple other

1030
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,599
people um looking into kind of

1031
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:44,720
poking

1032
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:47,920
at the the conspiracy type of ideas i

1033
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:50,640
think kind of trying to get some jabs in

1034
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:54,160
into uh the us and western governments

1035
00:39:01,829 --> 00:38:57,920
uh as this almost cold new cold war

1036
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:04,790
but those countries seem to be more open

1037
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:07,119
the uk and the us you know they're

1038
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,160
they're

1039
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:10,400
brothers in arms and then very closely

1040
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:11,680
aligned

1041
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:14,560
of course our media is much more into

1042
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:16,560
this topic than they were when i started

1043
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:19,760
this that's for sure and so is the uk

1044
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:22,079
media there they've got a lot of stories

1045
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:23,520
they seem to become

1046
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:26,160
more and more into this as well so so

1047
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:27,440
that's a good thing i think that

1048
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:29,599
reflects that the populations are

1049
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:32,720
interested in the topics uh but those i

1050
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,480
guess would would be the countries i

1051
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,800
would say that are more into it i think

1052
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:38,640
you know you've got south america

1053
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:41,119
especially right you've got several

1054
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:43,599
governments in south america with

1055
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:46,880
official ufo investigative organizations

1056
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:49,359
and they say they have no push back from

1057
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:52,079
the media or from other organizations

1058
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:55,839
the topics taken very seriously and that

1059
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,760
although in the west even in france

1060
00:40:03,190 --> 00:39:59,760
really the france is the only western

1061
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,200
country with the uh ufo investigative

1062
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,440
organization and they kind of walk on

1063
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:07,599
eggshells because uh

1064
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:10,079
the they aren't taking as serious uh

1065
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:12,000
amongst all of the other governmental

1066
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:14,240
agencies um

1067
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:16,079
not like the south american governments

1068
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:18,480
are right absolutely

1069
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:21,920
and so let's roll into the letter you

1070
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:23,040
wrote

1071
00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:26,960
and what what spawned that and um and

1072
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:29,839
there's a lot of information in that and

1073
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,280
i encourage anyone

1074
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:33,280
um to take a look

1075
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:34,960
and it'll be in the show notes there's a

1076
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,880
link actually

1077
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,280
in the show notes that leads straight to

1078
00:40:43,589 --> 00:40:41,359
that letter and so let's talk about it

1079
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:43,599
richard doty that name i've heard for

1080
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:46,000
years and um never

1081
00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:51,750
yeah right uh dodie for me is kind of

1082
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,040
like maybe dodie's my white whale um

1083
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:56,880
because

1084
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:58,720
i guess it started with

1085
00:41:02,309 --> 00:40:59,440
i

1086
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:02,319
dulce

1087
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:04,560
because i was in colorado

1088
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,119
i spent a lot of time in the san luis

1089
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:09,200
valley of colorado chris o'brien writes

1090
00:41:13,349 --> 00:41:11,440
a lot about that the mysterious valley

1091
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,359
where there's a lot of phenomenon and

1092
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:15,359
things like that going on there of

1093
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:18,160
course i i heard of the legends of dolce

1094
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:20,880
and everything so doing research into

1095
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:22,000
dulce

1096
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,880
i really i camped there i went there i

1097
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:26,880
looked around

1098
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:30,319
i didn't camp there but i did go there

1099
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:31,839
and

1100
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,880
the name dodie came back as to

1101
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:42,319
uh the

1102
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:45,599
related to the origins of of this

1103
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:46,720
legend

1104
00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:49,280
that there are extraterrestrials there

1105
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:51,839
were the extraterrestrial base there

1106
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:54,240
um then looking into other things you

1107
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:56,800
know dodie's name kept coming up

1108
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,359
and so i just kept looking into all of

1109
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:01,680
this and then i found this controversy

1110
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:05,599
where you know richard doty was uh

1111
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:06,640
for

1112
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:09,280
most of the 80s from 80 to like

1113
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:10,960
sometime late in the 80s we don't know

1114
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:14,640
exactly where he was he was at osi agent

1115
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:16,000
air force office of special

1116
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:17,680
investigations at kirtland air force

1117
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:21,280
base he was he honorably discharged in

1118
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:25,040
89 however sometime later in his career

1119
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:27,440
he was kicked out of osi

1120
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:29,119
and nobody

1121
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:30,480
knows exactly

1122
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:31,680
why

1123
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:34,720
he says it was because he was trying to

1124
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:37,599
help some spies and his bosses didn't

1125
00:42:42,309 --> 00:42:38,960
like the way he was

1126
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:42,319
but his stories are all bombastic and

1127
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:45,760
difficult to swallow or believe because

1128
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:48,560
admittedly he has spread disinformation

1129
00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:51,200
and his stories change over time so

1130
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:53,680
nobody knows exactly why he was kicked

1131
00:42:58,309 --> 00:42:56,240
out of osi and essentially he went to

1132
00:43:01,109 --> 00:42:58,319
work in the officers club kind of like

1133
00:43:03,510 --> 00:43:01,119
managing the the he was the way colonel

1134
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:03,520
alexander puts it he was the guy if the

1135
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:05,920
officers wanted to play ping pong

1136
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:07,359
he was the guy that had to go get him

1137
00:43:11,910 --> 00:43:09,440
the ping pong paddles

1138
00:43:13,910 --> 00:43:11,920
so he was kind of you know knocked down

1139
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:13,920
a few levels yeah i hate when that

1140
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:16,240
happens yeah no kidding

1141
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:17,359
yeah

1142
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:19,839
i want to ask you have you received any

1143
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:22,960
official response from this letter

1144
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:25,760
well i haven't what happened was is

1145
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:28,000
doting

1146
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:29,599
was connected with dolce and all of

1147
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:31,200
these other legends

1148
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:32,400
and

1149
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:33,839
you know said he spread some

1150
00:43:39,910 --> 00:43:36,800
disinformation said he met up the whole

1151
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,920
dodi the whole dulce thing he wanted uh

1152
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,680
this guy who thought there was an

1153
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:43,440
alien-based adult to believe there was

1154
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,960
an alien base there and um

1155
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:48,880
so i wanted to find out what was the

1156
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:51,280
official story i wanted to do some foias

1157
00:43:55,349 --> 00:43:52,800
when i

1158
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:55,359
started working as a journalist with the

1159
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:56,480
press

1160
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:58,160
department for

1161
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:59,359
osi

1162
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:01,839
the lady there was very helpful

1163
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:05,520
and she expedited my foia she said once

1164
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:07,680
i got my foia request

1165
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:10,720
fulfilled then i would be able to get

1166
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:12,720
someone to to answer some questions

1167
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:14,560
officially for me

1168
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,960
during this time i had found some other

1169
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:18,880
documents that

1170
00:44:22,470 --> 00:44:20,960
were not well known and were kind of

1171
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:22,480
hidden

1172
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:26,000
related to this whole affair and i

1173
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:27,920
eventually came to believe that i would

1174
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:30,480
probably receive those same files and

1175
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:33,440
sure enough i did so i think i found all

1176
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:34,640
everything that they're willing to

1177
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:37,839
release or or perhaps all that they have

1178
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:40,560
via foia on this whole affair

1179
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:42,560
but once i got my files the story

1180
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,920
changed she was not going to get me in

1181
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,440
touch with anybody

1182
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:47,119
she said

1183
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:49,599
if you want any more information do more

1184
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,680
foias and i'm like i don't need a foia

1185
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:53,520
i've got the documents i want someone to

1186
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:56,560
answer questions about these documents

1187
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:58,480
because what these documents say and

1188
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:00,400
what the gentleman who's in this these

1189
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:03,280
documents says are different things and

1190
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:05,680
i need to know who's a liar here the air

1191
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,079
force or this dodie guy

1192
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,720
and uh but they they wouldn't she just

1193
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:12,480
said well you have to you can put in

1194
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:14,720
more foias that's all we have

1195
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:16,640
so the story changed so she wouldn't let

1196
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:20,640
me get any official comment on that and

1197
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:23,760
you know colonel john alexander who has

1198
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:26,000
was in our in the army intelligence and

1199
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:27,440
had looked into

1200
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:29,599
uh ufos and things

1201
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,680
and was a consultant you know helped me

1202
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:33,760
with this and he he was kind of shocked

1203
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:35,920
in that and he also told me well then

1204
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:37,440
attack this thing

1205
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,880
as

1206
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:40,480
criminal acts

1207
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:43,200
because what this is is this is a man

1208
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,480
saying he

1209
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:46,960
uh committed criminal acts

1210
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:49,520
at the behest of the air force

1211
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:52,079
well they've got to respond to that so

1212
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:55,040
when i wrote this letter i wrote it

1213
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:57,040
from that angle

1214
00:46:01,829 --> 00:45:59,599
and surprisingly at least to him and to

1215
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:01,839
myself really we still haven't gotten

1216
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:04,480
any movement on this what i was able to

1217
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:06,880
find you know were things such as

1218
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,280
dodi had lied to some senators he had

1219
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:11,359
con

1220
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:13,680
created hoax documents

1221
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:16,240
including the first documents to mention

1222
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,680
mj twelve the first documents to mention

1223
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:22,079
project aquarius these are all the

1224
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:25,359
things he hopes he admits he hoaxed

1225
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:27,280
these were documents that he was

1226
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:28,880
dispensing and that were dispensed

1227
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:31,040
during this time and have been lost to

1228
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,760
obscurity when you read about mj 12 you

1229
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:35,680
read about this jamie chandara guy

1230
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:37,200
getting these letters

1231
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:38,720
you don't read about that there were

1232
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:41,599
documents out before

1233
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:44,880
that jamie shandera was partners with

1234
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:47,440
william moore and that william moore had

1235
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:49,920
been secretly working with dodie

1236
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,000
several years and that williams more

1237
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:55,040
story keeps changing over and over again

1238
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,359
and that in the early 80s before these

1239
00:47:02,230 --> 00:46:59,520
documents were known to anybody

1240
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:02,240
william moore was going to uh a

1241
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,400
journalist and saying hey we have to

1242
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:07,200
write a book called majestic 12 about

1243
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:11,040
this this uh big conspiracy and that

1244
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,400
author uh bob pratt who worked for the

1245
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:16,640
inquirer which at the time was reputable

1246
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:18,800
actually and he was a reputable

1247
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:20,960
journalist said well you don't have any

1248
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,119
evidence here i'll write a fiction book

1249
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:25,680
with you but all this is i we don't have

1250
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:28,559
any you know facts to go on and william

1251
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,079
moore got upset with that and the book

1252
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:32,800
never happened but uh eventually these

1253
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:34,559
documents came out

1254
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,680
and uh it's this whole history

1255
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,839
of a lot of these mythologies that has

1256
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:41,599
been lost

1257
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:44,319
that really you know as researchers we

1258
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:45,760
can't ignore

1259
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:48,000
and the reason it was ignored is just

1260
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:49,599
because it's william moore who was a

1261
00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:51,520
luminary in the field

1262
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,839
had uh when he came out with the fact

1263
00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:55,280
that he had been working behind the

1264
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:57,119
scenes with dodie

1265
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:00,160
the field was a really upset about the

1266
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:02,319
whole thing and they just wanted to

1267
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:05,359
forget it all they just kind of i i have

1268
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:08,240
uh i see chris lambreitz on our uh in

1269
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:10,400
our chat room and he was sitting in the

1270
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,680
audience when

1271
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:13,599
when moore admitted um hey do you mind

1272
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:15,920
if i pull him in on skype that would be

1273
00:48:19,829 --> 00:48:17,359
great because you know i've been meaning

1274
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,839
to um speak with him and that would be

1275
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:21,440
awesome i'd love to

1276
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,920
let's hear some more from him

1277
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:25,599
chris and i became friends in the last

1278
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:31,910
chris you got to shut off you got to

1279
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:34,559
mute the show how are you chris i got it

1280
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:37,839
hi how are you good good alejandro

1281
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:39,520
hello how are you

1282
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:41,040
hey listen guys you know just to let you

1283
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:44,160
know we have uh we have nine minutes

1284
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:45,599
left to the show so

1285
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:47,680
we gotta we gotta keep this a little on

1286
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:49,200
the short side but chris you got some

1287
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:51,760
questions for alejandro

1288
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:53,680
actually he was just mentioning the uh

1289
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:55,599
the pratt documents

1290
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:57,440
and he also mentioned the first document

1291
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,440
that came out mentioning mj 12 as well

1292
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:01,440
as the uh the other documents that are

1293
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:03,200
called the kirtland documents

1294
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:04,720
and one of the things that i noted the

1295
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:06,319
other day in reading through the pratt

1296
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:08,079
documents is

1297
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:09,839
there's a set of pratt documents and you

1298
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:11,440
may know i think kurt collins had found

1299
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:14,000
these as well and in those documents

1300
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,440
more states

1301
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:17,680
as he's talking to pratt

1302
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:20,160
that dodi had suggested that they filed

1303
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:21,680
through foia

1304
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:23,839
for any of the information on sightings

1305
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:25,760
around kirtland air force base through

1306
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:28,800
the local afosi offices

1307
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,480
which if you recall stan friedman i

1308
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:32,160
believe was involved back in the day and

1309
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:33,760
trying to get all this information from

1310
00:49:37,589 --> 00:49:36,000
the afosi offices out there but here's

1311
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:37,599
this document in which moore is telling

1312
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:40,559
pratt that it's dodie himself

1313
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,040
who is telling moore who suggests to

1314
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:45,599
pratt that you know we should file fy

1315
00:49:49,589 --> 00:49:47,119
request to get documents from local

1316
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,599
afosi office that's how

1317
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:51,680
that original set of kirtland documents

1318
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,559
was so to speak uncovered but it points

1319
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,640
to the fact right there it's doty

1320
00:50:00,390 --> 00:49:58,640
wanting them to be found

1321
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:00,400
and those documents are what has led

1322
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:01,920
everyone to believe

1323
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:03,680
that all of these things began to occur

1324
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:05,599
in the august september you know and

1325
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:08,000
later in the year time frame when i i

1326
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:09,920
did write alejandro a few weeks ago and

1327
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:11,920
pointed out in one of the documents even

1328
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:14,480
that greg valdez has on his site

1329
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:16,960
that paul benowitz stated that

1330
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:18,800
ernest edwards had known all about this

1331
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:20,480
since january

1332
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:21,280
so

1333
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:23,599
paul's films and what when he first met

1334
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:24,559
dodie

1335
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,480
that happened early in the year in

1336
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,319
january but you'll notice

1337
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:30,079
there are no documents

1338
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:32,160
to cover this time frame why is there a

1339
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:34,480
huge gap the what's a letter came out in

1340
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:37,040
july supposedly was intended to get more

1341
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:38,960
or somebody from april up there

1342
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:41,680
more supposedly gets called in and more

1343
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:43,200
passes on to pratt that dodi has

1344
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:44,880
suggested they file for it so you can

1345
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:48,000
see what's happening here doty has been

1346
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,760
at the core of all of this from the

1347
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:51,839
beginning not only in fabricating the

1348
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,520
documents which moore has supposedly

1349
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:55,680
claimed but in ensuring that people

1350
00:50:59,190 --> 00:50:57,359
would find and get out these kirtland

1351
00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:59,200
documents that seem to make everything

1352
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,040
appear to be focused around you know the

1353
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:03,119
fall of that year

1354
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:05,359
for whatever reason yes sir pardon me

1355
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:07,280
just one second i still hear a little

1356
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:08,720
bit of feedback you might have some

1357
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:10,720
sound coming through your i'm sorry

1358
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:12,240
about that if i do i don't have anything

1359
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:14,240
on here at all just just you and me that

1360
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:15,680
i know of that i'll

1361
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:18,000
anyway sorry about that if it is it's

1362
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:19,839
something else i don't know what

1363
00:51:24,790 --> 00:51:22,000
but anyway have either one of you tried

1364
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:24,800
to reach richard dodie

1365
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,079
i have not and the reason is i it's not

1366
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,480
important for me because

1367
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:32,640
a lot of what this story has been based

1368
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,880
off in the past is what richard dodie

1369
00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:36,559
has to say

1370
00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:38,400
his story has changed over and over

1371
00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:40,319
again i don't feel that you can really

1372
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:42,640
trust what he has to say i think we've

1373
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:45,760
gotten enough out of him at this point

1374
00:51:49,829 --> 00:51:47,760
so i kind of would like to maybe catch

1375
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:49,839
him in a couple things and ask him why

1376
00:51:54,309 --> 00:51:51,760
did you say this then and then this then

1377
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:54,319
and then this then but i don't know that

1378
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:57,040
that's necessarily important not only

1379
00:52:01,990 --> 00:51:59,440
that there there's a book project beta

1380
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,000
and also this new magic men which was a

1381
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:03,680
book but now a documentary which has

1382
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,720
plenty of interviews with dodie so

1383
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:08,640
what i wanted to look for is what we

1384
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,280
know officially so for instance

1385
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:13,839
even with this idea that you know

1386
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:15,440
edwards knew

1387
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:17,760
prior which it does seem you know that's

1388
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:20,559
who benowit had approached sue before

1389
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:22,640
however with these kirtland documents it

1390
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:26,240
does show that uh there was an official

1391
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:28,400
or at least a

1392
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:31,200
an official inquiry into what bennett

1393
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:32,400
which was saying

1394
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,240
until later in the year in 1980 so

1395
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:38,800
were they just blowing off benowitz for

1396
00:52:42,870 --> 00:52:40,240
most of the year

1397
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,880
possibly i mean if some guy was coming

1398
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:44,720
and saying i'm talking to aliens and

1399
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:46,880
they're flying around your base

1400
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,040
i could see how

1401
00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:52,319
that might not be taken very seriously

1402
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:53,839
just to keep you guys in mind we have

1403
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:56,160
about four minutes left and i have to we

1404
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:57,280
have to end right on time because

1405
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:59,680
there's another live show coming up

1406
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:01,200
i think i i want to make the point that

1407
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:02,800
when bert when bennowitz called and

1408
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:04,880
spoke with edwards first

1409
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:06,400
which would have been in january

1410
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:08,240
sometime or other

1411
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,559
edwards put him in in touch with dodie

1412
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:12,720
at the time if you really read those

1413
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:14,400
documents there is nothing in the

1414
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:17,680
documents that alludes to the fact that

1415
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,119
what occurred the meetings that took

1416
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:21,200
place dodie going to talk to uh benowitz

1417
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:22,880
and take came miller with him nothing

1418
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:25,440
states that that was the first time

1419
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:27,280
nothing there states that was the only

1420
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:30,240
time it's simply that's the first time

1421
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,400
there are some documents that came out

1422
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:34,400
that included and they gave benuet short

1423
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:36,800
shrift in those documents nothing

1424
00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:38,720
alluded to the fact that benue you

1425
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,800
recall that it said benowitz had been

1426
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,720
investigating the you know these

1427
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:44,559
sightings and never alluded to the fact

1428
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:46,800
that he had contacted edwards edwards

1429
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,720
put him in touch with dodie and i think

1430
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:50,240
if it was this was a nuclear weapon

1431
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:52,000
storage area with a surrounded fence and

1432
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:54,160
someone called and said i want to talk

1433
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:56,480
to you about potential intrusions

1434
00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:58,480
they wouldn't sit on their hands for

1435
00:54:01,829 --> 00:54:00,319
even two weeks before they would go up

1436
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,839
and visit him so i think my point is

1437
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:04,079
simply just because the documents came

1438
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:05,359
out and make everyone look that

1439
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:07,119
direction read what they state they do

1440
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:09,200
not ever state this was the only time

1441
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:11,359
that dodie had gone to talk to benowitz

1442
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:13,040
or that any other communications had

1443
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:14,319
happened in fact

1444
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:16,319
there's a huge silence

1445
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:18,079
in that first six months before

1446
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:20,559
supposedly the wetzel letter is sent

1447
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:23,200
down to apro in july

1448
00:54:28,470 --> 00:54:26,160
yeah i i don't know i i i'm not sure we

1449
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:28,480
don't have much more there maybe i think

1450
00:54:31,109 --> 00:54:30,160
you've talked to edwards is that right

1451
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:31,119
chris

1452
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:32,640
yes i talked to edwards i talked to

1453
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:34,400
dodie i talked to paul benowitz i have

1454
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:36,559
several so what did edward say though

1455
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,280
are you saying that edwards is part of a

1456
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:42,079
conspiracy where they hid um another

1457
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:43,680
investigation

1458
00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:45,280
i called and spoke with edwards it

1459
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:47,280
turned out later on and i just i

1460
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:49,119
mentioned this in my book that it had i

1461
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,960
had realized it before when i first

1462
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:52,720
spoke to edwards i asked him when was

1463
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:54,160
the first time he spoke with with

1464
00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:57,040
benowitz and he said october sometime in

1465
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:58,880
there i re-listened to the tape when i

1466
00:55:02,309 --> 00:55:00,319
was writing my book

1467
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:02,319
it wasn't and and i found out that a few

1468
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:04,640
weeks before that he had had a meeting

1469
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:06,240
with the two representatives of sandia

1470
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:08,559
that were there at behest of the senator

1471
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:10,319
and that's when i have a document that

1472
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:12,000
paul and you know it's my fault for

1473
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:13,680
missing it at the time but paul had sent

1474
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:15,680
this to me a log file i guess what does

1475
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:17,680
it mean to you since we're short on time

1476
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:18,960
are you saying that then they're

1477
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,680
covering up a true ufo event that

1478
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:23,680
benowitz was bringing to them or what do

1479
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:25,920
you think that means to you yeah okay

1480
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:28,240
paul got it on film they knew he had it

1481
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:29,440
the whole point has been to get

1482
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:31,440
everybody looking some other direct

1483
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:32,400
action

1484
00:55:36,549 --> 00:55:34,640
ah interesting

1485
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:36,559
yeah i mean in fact alejandro i will be

1486
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:38,319
glad to send you a copy of the book i've

1487
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:39,839
got i realize it's only a digital book

1488
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,359
so it's kind of awesome i've got it it's

1489
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:43,680
a digital book so i i you know i've got

1490
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:45,280
to look through that and i will and in

1491
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:46,799
fact i want to talk to you some more

1492
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:49,760
about this because i'm skeptical of that

1493
00:55:53,190 --> 00:55:51,839
point but i don't know uh you have a lot

1494
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:53,200
more

1495
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:54,960
some information to that everything

1496
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:56,880
everything that i was searching for is

1497
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:59,280
the roots of these mythologies which is

1498
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:01,359
really important and we will be posting

1499
00:56:05,829 --> 00:56:04,079
a video this week um that is going to go

1500
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:05,839
into all of this as well to put it

1501
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:09,200
together uh for people in a video format

1502
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:12,160
which is a lot more digestible to people

1503
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:13,200
these days

1504
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,599
hey okay so we're running out of time

1505
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:17,680
alejandro real quickly um tell the

1506
00:56:21,870 --> 00:56:19,119
listening audience where they can find

1507
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:21,880
you your website and all that good stuff

1508
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:24,000
openminds.tv so when you go to the front

1509
00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:25,760
page under the government military

1510
00:56:29,870 --> 00:56:28,000
section you'll see open letter to the us

1511
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:29,880
air force that's where that is but

1512
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:32,240
openminds.tv is where you can get all of

1513
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:34,960
this so check it out all right great hey

1514
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:36,720
and thanks for coming in for a chat

1515
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:39,839
there chris and sure anytime all right

1516
00:56:45,030 --> 00:56:42,000
we'll stay in touch all right thank you

1517
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,040
thank you both very much um so

1518
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:47,760
if uh this is it for the show today if

1519
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,520
you missed any part of the show you can

1520
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:52,079
catch it as a podcast and a whole bunch

1521
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:53,680
of other podcasts

1522
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:55,839
then they're all free and that's on our

1523
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,480
website which is podcast ufo you can

1524
00:57:01,670 --> 00:57:00,319
also check out links to the story and

1525
00:57:02,950 --> 00:57:01,680
our show notes

1526
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:02,960
and as well as joining in the

1527
00:57:07,589 --> 00:57:05,280
conversation in our forums our guest for

1528
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:07,599
next week will be noe torres

1529
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:10,160
and ruben yuri arty

1530
00:57:13,750 --> 00:57:11,920
and so we'll have a couple guests next

1531
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:13,760
week that should be a great show

1532
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:15,520
and i want to thank everyone for helping

1533
00:57:19,349 --> 00:57:17,760
out and also i want to thank again for

1534
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,359
you the listener for helping me put

1535
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:21,200
together a hundred shows it's been real

1536
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:23,280
enjoyable i want to thank our guest

1537
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:25,119
alejandro rojas

1538
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:27,359
keith roland the producer for the dark

1539
00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:29,280
matter radio network

1540
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,760
andy fleming will be next back next week

1541
00:57:36,069 --> 00:57:33,839
we have carrie lloyd whitehouse for our

1542
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:36,079
music peggy shunning for managing our 10

1543
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:38,880
000 liked facebook page and remember to

1544
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:40,720
like us on facebook for all the latest

1545
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:43,599
ufo news you can just get us out next

1546
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:45,280
week right here on the dark matter radio

1547
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:47,760
network and every wednesday at 9 00 pm

1548
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:50,960
eastern standard time right here on

1549
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:52,799
the show and remember to jump in the